About a month ago I started reading Thomas Karlsson's "Uthark - The Nightside of the Runes" and I have to admit that this whole new (to me at least) perception of the runes really hit me. I read the book a couple of times more and I often use it as a handbook since then because I somehow feel connected to it.

 I feel that this whole Uthark theory stands a bit like a heresy within the circles of rune students so I ask of the opinions of those who have read this book and experimented with the Uthark in some extend. Please let me know what your thoughts on Uthark are and maybe share with me some of your experiences or technics.

Blessings to all!

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Hi! I haven't practiced with the 'uthark' myself, or know anything about it.

From the picture I can see that the Fehu is shifted one place to the left, making Uruz the *first* rune, right?
I'm curious though. In my optic that doesn't really change anything because the runes are a circle, and thus the order remains the same. But it would change the Aetts to 7-8-9, if the Uthark uses Aetts at all?

Can I ask why you feel more drawn to the uthark than the futhark?

Again, I haven't read the book or know anything about Uthark, I'm just curious! Sorry I can't be of much help, but I'm here to learn also. Good luck!

 

This "simple" shift gives a totally different approach on runes.

Some things to consider.

1. You can of course study Uthark, but have in mind that this community focuses on Futhark primarily.

2. Meadows' "Power of Runes" involves an approach to runes that reminds Native American mindset and uses Uthark.

3. "Dragon Rouge" order has declared that studies Uthark.

4. I do not know any "formal" documentation that states that Uthark is the original sequence as it is said, but I won't doubt about it. It is a matter of choice.

5. What I can feel about Uthark is that a person that studies it, has the intention to develop himself all alone, without the aid of any other entity. This seems to be close to Left-Hand Path movements. This is of course my personal feeling of Uthark.

Hi! I would like to comment on your first point. How is studying not studying the Futhark? I ask this because the whole issue of Futhark vs. Uthark is whether it is FEHU or URUZ that is the first rune; and how can the order of runes not be a relevant study to the Futhark?

Of course, this gets into semantics. I mean, the name "Futhark" denotes more than just an order-preference. It denotes the runes. A rose is a rose even if it's called a nose.

Hi Francis
To set it in different words, do you believe that one will be the same person if he is born in desert and grow up alone or in a palace and become a prince? The circle (the Law) is the same, but what are the milestones?
The cells are the same, but if you place one foot on the top, the head on the right and the 2 hands on the left, do we have a human being?
Actually, there is no definite answer to that. But I believe that one can only know if he tries. I ve tried walking (for a limited time TBH) with Uthark and I can say that order played a significant role. Uthark has presented to me a darker way of spiritual development.
As it has been said, another word for Chaos Magick is Results Magick. No theories, no controversies, just try for yourself.

On the other hand, you talk about rose and nose.
Rose is rrrrrrose because rrrrose is rrrrred, "rrrrosa" is "rrrroseus", "rrrrrrodon" is "errrrithron" and "orrrrraion". There is a whole etymological approach on this beautiful word about this beautiful creature.
Nose, on the other hand, is nnnnnnose because letter n is just nasal.
I wouldn't like to meet a person that would use the word "nose" for a "rose". To me, he would destroy all the associations one makes on hearing this word.
There is no good on being shallow on the words, one can miss the magic of the words, just a friendly piece of advice.

Yes, there are plenty to words that a purely "objective" approach would ultimately be shallow, and would miss out on so much that is really going on.

I think when it comes to the runes, there is substance in form. What do the forms of the runes mean? Not just the shape-forms, but the sound-forms? This is something that I am just coming to terms with... I look at a rune as I carve it, think of its name and how my mouth moves as I intone its name; what its shape feels like as the groove deepening below the razor's edge in the wood; how the redness of the paint pooled in that groove strikes my eye... Forms, appearances... but not merely so.

When I intone the word UTHARK, it sounds DARK to me. The initial "ooooooo" sound is dark to me. Flipping FEHU onto the end is like turning the Futhark inside out, or peeking around it to see what it's hiding...

Can there be an UTHARK without a FUTHARK?

Is not studying the UTHARK just another angle on the FUTHARK?

If I want to learn about the Moon, I do not just want to visit the lit-up side; the dark side needs to be measured as well...

I think we both agree that there are no answers here, but that a person would have to experience the runes both as Futhark and as Uthark, and then compare the experiences? Pretty much what I plan to do is contemplate the Runes, beginning with Uruz, and see where that gets me. It's all about the experience. I don't know if what I will experience can be put in any objective words.

When Blum wrote his legendary (or notorious?) book, he used his own order to the Runes. What does that mean?

The ordering of the Elder Futhark is found on the Kylver Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylver_Stone) dated around 400CE.

There are other artifacts too that present this order to us, and so this aspect of the runes remains true to history when we speak of the Elder Futhark.

What it means when someone re-orders the runes is that they have taken the same liberties as the original creator(s) did. Whether that was a wise thing to do, an interesting metaphysical exercise, or approaching blasphemy, I don't know.

My studies have always been most concerned with the Elder Futhark because it connects with me and makes sense to me. If something else makes sense to you more, I think you should follow that.

But don't look down on other methods, please, or the people who are at various stages of enlightenment or fumbling in the dark. You (the general You, not you Francis) have no right to do so, and this habit of some people is the most ignorant path of all.

There could be many reasons for the order found on stones and like all history is is a shadow as to what the true order might be. We find some runes have both a shape and a sound that holds true to all the sacred writing crafts. Such a the "B" rune.  The glyph for the letter "a"  is a bovine in Greek, Hebrew and many other scripts.and are the first in order Fehu and Uruz are both bovines and in this way both point to differing ways of understanding. One is random power (Uruz) and controlled power (Fehu)  Wiled and domesticated. The left hand path in its most basic form is the path of experiences. Its focus on death and decay is grounded in the deep facts of experiential life. It points the the fact that there is no life without death and that death itself is the very food of life. Thus we can see that the Uthark and Futhark offer two paths  a duality pointing to a single truth. 

I am fascinated with your comment that all the "alphabets" Hebrew, Greek, and Futhark begin with bovines, if not the same sounds. Now, just like there are theories connecting all these alphabets to the same source - but theories based on the shapes and sounds of the letters - there can be a theory which links all of these alphabets to the same mystical source of a certain row of IDEAS... Maybe the list of ideas (rune names) in the Futhark came before anyone thought of writing in "letters" (phonemic writing) - in the same way that hieroglyphs (= "picture ideas") are supposed to be a writing system ancestral to the phoneme-based systems (a.k.a. with letters). It's a chicken-vs.egg issue here.

The Greek alphabet begins with Alpha (=bovine, you say?) and ends with Omega (looks like Othila, to me!), and so to me this seems to suggest Futhark rather Uthark is the right order. But what is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, Loclynn? Does it mean "estate, immobile or inherited wealth, land" like Othila? 

Here we can make some good progress in understanding how the brain may have changed over time. The use of pictures to express ideals is a process of special thinking.and it Constantine a much more dynamic language then plain text.  This kind of written is art and thus subjective. A image may move me emotionally in one way today and another tomorrow. The runes have a very similar form .only the images are more like abstract ideals whose forms are loose around the edges so to speak. Hebrew is far to complex to make an easy one to one comparison. 

The last letter is "T" Tue  thus Tiwaz would be the phonetic match However the "T" is the image of the cross and is used to denote wound. 

Omega and Othala. It is an interesting association concerning the sound, but to give you the missing information, the meaning is quite different. O-mega just means "great O", as opposed to o-mikron.

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